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Things that make you say “HMMMM”…..

posted:  13:04:07,  by:  morethanstone,  in categories:  Social Justice, Scripture, homosexuality

When a slave owner strikes a male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies immediately, the owner shall be punished. But if the slave survives a day or two, there is no punishment; for the slave is the owner’s property. (Exodus 21:20-21)

If a man has sexual intercourse with a male as one has sexual intercourse with a woman, the two of them have committed an abomination. They must be put to death; their blood guilt is on themselves. (Lev 20:13)

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, in singleness of heart, as you obey Christ; not only while being watched, and in order to please them, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart. (Eph. 6:5-6)

Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! The sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, passive homosexual partners, practicing homosexuals, (1Co 6:9)

Tell slaves to be submissive to their masters and to give satisfaction in every respect; they are not to talk back, not to pilfer, but to show complete and perfect fidelity, so that in everything they may be an ornament to the doctrine of God our Savior. (Titus 2:9-10)

For this reason God gave them over to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged the natural sexual relations for unnatural ones, (Rom 1:26)

Let all who are under the yoke of slavery regard their masters as worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and the teaching may not be blasphemed. Those who have believing masters must not be disrespectful to them on the ground that they are members of the church; rather they must serve them all the more, since those who benefit by their service are believers and beloved. Teach and urge these duties. Whoever teaches otherwise and does not agree with the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ and the teaching that is in accordance with godliness, is conceited, understanding nothing, and has a morbid craving for controversy and for disputes about words. From these come envy, dissension, slander, base suspicions, and wrangling among those who are depraved in mind and bereft of the truth, imagining that godliness is a means of gain. (1Tim. 6:1-5)

realizing that law is not intended for a righteous person, but for lawless and rebellious people, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, sexually immoral people, practicing homosexuals, kidnappers, liars, perjurers — in fact, for any who live contrary to sound teaching.
(1Ti 1:9-10)

-Edmund Gibson, Anglican Bishop in London on slavery

The Freedom which Christianity gives, is a Freedom from the Bondage of Sin and Satan, and from the Dominion of Men’s Lusts and Passions and inordinate Desires; but as to their outward Condition, whatever that was before, whether bond or free, their being baptized, and becoming Christians, makes no manner of Change in it.

-Stephen Bennett, “The Gay Spin Zone”, Agape Press

Day in and day out, America is getting bombarded with ‘pro-gay’ propaganda. It’s relentless. You can’t open a newspaper or magazine, listen to the radio, or turn on the television without someone, somewhere pounding the ‘glories of gayness’ into your brain.

-JOHN L. WILSON, 1823

There can be no doubt that such doctrines, from such a source, will produce the best of consequences in our mixed population, and tend to make our servants not only more contented with their lot, but more useful to their owners. The great piety and learning of Doctor FURMAN, his long established character with the religious of every denomination throughout our State, will at once command the respectful attention of every reader.

Joe Dallas, “Responding To Pro-Gay Theology”

The male-female union, introduced in Genesis, is the only model of sexual behavior consistently praised in both Old and New Testaments. While other forms of behavior (polygamy and the use of concubines, for example) are introduced and even allowed in the Old Testament, a monogamous relation between husband and wife is the standard upheld as the ideal within scripture. While the old phrase, “God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve” seems flippant, it is a fair assessment of created intent: whereas heterosexuality is commended throughout the Bible, not once is a homosexual relationship mentioned in anything but negative terms.

-Thornton Stringfellow, “Scriptural and Statistical Views in Favor of Slavery”

Before we conclude slavery to be a thing hateful to God, and a great sin in his sight, it is proper that we should search the records he has given us, with care, to see in what light he has looked upon it, and find the warrant for concluding, that we shall honor him by efforts to abolish it; which efforts, in their consequences, may involve the indiscriminate slaughter of the innocent and the guilty, the master and the servant. We all believe him to be a Being who is the same yesterday, to-day, and forever.

-Bible.org

There are cases on record where a marriage license was issued to persons of the same sex. I recall one such incident in Phoenix, Arizona. A marriage license was issued in the Maricopa County clerk’s office to two men 39 and 21 years old respectively. The two men are reported to have “married” in a private ceremony.

However, to call a union of two persons of the same sex a “marriage” is a misnomer. In the Bible, marriage is a divinely ordered institution designed to form a permanent union between one man and one woman for one purpose (among others) of procreating or propagating the human race. That was God’s order in the first of such unions (Genesis 1:27, 28; 2:24; Matthew 19:5). If, in His original creation of humans, God had created two persons of the same sex, there would not be a human race in existence today. The whole idea of two persons of the same sex marrying is absurd, unsound, ridiculously unreasonable, stupid. A clergyman might bless a homosexual marriage but God won’t.

-Rev. Dr. Richard Furman, “EXPOSITION of The Views of the Baptists, RELATIVE TO THE COLOURED POPULATION In the United States”

In the New-Testament, the Gospel History, or representation of facts, presents us a view correspondent with that, which is furnished by other authentic ancient histories of the state of the world at the commencement of Christianity. The powerful Romans had succeeded, in empire, the polished Greeks; and under both empires, the countries they possessed and governed were full of slaves. Many of these with their masters, were converted to the Christian Faith, and received, together with them into the Christian Church, while it was yet under the ministry of the inspired Apostles. In things purely spiritual, they appear to have enjoyed equal privileges; but their relationship, as masters and slaves, was not dissolved. Their respective duties are strictly enjoined. The masters are not required to emancipate their slaves; but to give them the things that are just and equal, forbearing threatening; and to remember, they also have a master in Heaven. The “servants under the yoke” *[upo zugon Douloi: bond-servants, or slaves. Doulos, is the proper term for slaves; it is here in the plural and rendered more expressive by being connected with yoke—UNDER THE YOKE.] (bond-servants or slaves) mentioned by Paul to Timothy, as having “believing masters,” are not authorized by him to demand of them emancipation, or to employ violent means to obtain it; but are directed to “account their masters worthy of all honour,” and “not to despise them, because they were brethren” in religion; “but the rather to do them service, because they were faithful and beloved partakers of the Christian benefit.” Similar directions are given by him in other places, and by other Apostles. And it gives great weight to the argument, that in this place, Paul follows his directions concerning servants with a charge to Timothy, as an Evangelist, to teach and exhort men to observe this doctrine.

-Exodus International

The Bible is very clear about its condemnation of homosexual conduct. Both the Old and New Testaments speak with one voice on this subject. In spite of the publicity given to pro-gay theologians in recent years, serious and consistent exegetical study still allows no other interpretation.

Those who take seriously the authority of God’s Word should be aware that perhaps no subject poses a greater threat to the place of Scripture in our world today. If the world (and too often, even the church) can be convinced that we can ignore what the Bible teaches about homosexuality, then every other teaching of Scripture can be rationalized. Rejecting its teachings means confidence in the Bible as the inspired Word of God will be seriously eroded.

-Thornton Stringfellow, “Scriptural and Statistical Views in Favor of Slavery”

…Jesus Christ recognized this institution as one that was lawful among men, and regulated its relative duties… I affirm then, first (and no man denies) that Jesus Christ has not abolished slavery by a prohibitory command; and second, I affirm, he has introduced no new moral principle which can work its destruction…

-George Fitzhugh, “Cannibals All! or Slaves Without Masters”

All modern philosophy converges to a single point — the overthrow of all government, the substitution of the untrammelled “Sovereignty of the Individual,” for the Sovereignty of Society, and the inauguration of anarchy. First domestic slavery, next religious institutions, then separate property, then political government, and, finally, family government and family relations, are to be swept away. This is the distinctly avowed programme of all able abolitionists and socialists; and towards this end the doctrines and the practices of the weakest and most timid among them tend.

-Bob Knight And Peter Sprigg. “Marriage: One Man, One Woman

If same-sex relationships acquire marital-type status in the law, several things will occur:

    * Businesses that decline to recognize non-marital relationships will increasingly be punished through loss of contracts and even legal action. This is already occurring in San Francisco and in Canada.
    * Other groups, such as bisexuals and polygamists, will demand the right to redefine marriage to suit their own proclivities. Once the standard of one-man, one-woman marriage is broken, there is no logical stopping point.
    * As society rewards homosexual behavior, more young people will be encouraged to experiment and more will be discouraged from overcoming homosexual desires.
    * Popular understanding of what marriage is and what it requires will undergo change. Homosexual relationships, which usually lack both permanence and fidelity, are unlikely to change to fit the traditional model of lifelong, faithful marriage. Instead, society’s expectations of marriage will change in response to the homosexual model, thus leading to a further weakening of the institution of marriage. Some homosexual activists have acknowledged that they intend to use marriage mainly as a way to radically shift society’s entire conception of sexual morality. See appendix.

Conclusion

“Marriage” for same-sex couples (or the counterfeit equivalent under pseudonyms such as “civil unions” or “domestic partnerships”) is being promoted as an extension of tolerance, equality, and civil rights. But they are really wedges designed to overturn traditional sexual morality and to win official affirmation, celebration, subsidization and solemnization of behavior that is harmful to the people who engage in it and to society, and that is still viewed as morally wrong by a majority of the American public.

For the well-being of children and of society, we must not allow the creation of government-imposed counterfeit “marriage” by any name. Marriage is civilization’s primary institution, and we tamper with it at our own peril.

As you may have noted, I have not added much commentary to this, other than a few bolds and italics. I’d love to hear your gut reactions to this post…

If you are interested in the Anglican schism….

posted:  29:03:07,  by:  morethanstone,  in categories:  Healing, Africa, Kingdom of God, homosexuality

HT to Max for this article.

For those of you following all the goings on in the Anglican Communion, a fascinating speech given by BISHOP MUSONDA TREVOR SELWYN MWAMBA of Botswana. If you have some time, hop over and read it. It’s a different view from Africa than the one that I have heard touted the most. If you are unfamiliar with the split in the Anglican Communion, at the most basic level, it’s about homosexuality. Some churches in the US (and elsewhere in the West) have split from ECUSA and joined AMIA. (And if you ARE unfamiliar with this schism, where HAVE you been?)

One thing I have wondered during this whole thing, is how does power and $$ play into this? AMIA now has 109 affiliates with over 70 other groups in various stages of formation. How much $$ is now being directed to the provinces in Rwanda and Southeast Asia? Does this $$ play into the schism? Read a quote from Bishop Mwamba….

“The other factor influencing the voices from Africa is numbers and the almighty dollar!

These factors can be seen to influence – and at times bring pressure to bear, or even manipulate the situation. Where does ‘power’ lie in the present debate? The provinces in Nigeria have collectively the largest number of Anglican members in the world – more than the Church of England and ECUSA combined! America has long been generous in its hospitality and support for African church projects and its leaders, however, in the current situation, the almighty dollar has been used to strengthen the voice and position of some African bishops who have been invited to the States and given generous incentives. Very tempting indeed for a bishop from a poor African diocese to be feted and offered funds by his American hosts, if he endorses the party line!

One of the things that amazes me in this whole debate is the manner in which lobbying, very peculiar to America, has been used to influence opinion, decisions, and relationships, which results in the creation of a culture of ‘them’ and ‘us’, ‘in’ and ‘out’, and never shall the twain meet. The success of this lobyying has been assisted mainly by the dissemination of information on the internet.”

I am not implying that the Bishops that support the separation of US churches from ECUSA do not have strong beliefs and convictions. I am saying, however, that money has a great potential to corrupt and confuse issues.

Another quote from the Bishop.

” One is reminded of Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland, the King sitting as a judge orders the jury to consider their verdict even before the trial has began. And the Rabbit hastily interrupts, “Not yet, not yet! There is a great deal to come before that!”

Yes, there is a great deal to come from the listening process and so we all need patience the solution will not come today or tomorrow but most likely within the next 20 years or God’s time because God who was in Christ reconciling the world to himself, is also here today working for reconciliation in the Anglican Communion as we embrace different views of our faith. Reconciliation is the answer.”

Reconciliation is the answer. Hmmm. I think that perhaps this is a theme that continues to pop up. Isn’t this what God is about? Reconciling us to Him and to each other.

NOTE: I am adding this addendum to this post. I found a quote by Archbishop Kolini. (see AMIA.)

Quoting the Bible, Kolini said that Christians should always keep their bodies pure since the body is God’s temple. He said that yielding to acts of homosexuality is tantamount to committing genocide.

“In Rwanda we are spearheading the ‘Never Again’ notion. We had physical genocide and we can’t afford having another moral genocide,” he emphasized

Wow. This is so sad. Another genocide? This type of inflammatory rhetoric should NOT be allowed.

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Could That Be What Jesus Meant?

posted:  10:02:07,  by:  morethanstone,  in categories:  Church, What hacks me off!, human trafficking, Kingdom of God, Poverty, Social Justice, Persecuted Church, homosexuality

Matt 10:22
All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved

Mark 13:13
All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.

Luke 6:22
Blessed are you when men hate you, when they exclude you and insult you and reject your name as evil, because of the Son of Man.

Luke 21:17
All men will hate you because of me.

These 4 verses are thrown around in the US Christian culture a lot. It’s a “badge of courage”. The problem is that Jesus was not only talking to His disciples, many of whom were martyred, but also, across the ages to Christians in places like China, Sudan, and the Middle East. I do not think that Jesus was talking to us, here and now, to give us an excuse to be careless and unkind. If my basic understanding of the Scriptures is correct, those who were persecuting Jesus, and then the church, were the religious system and the empire of Rome. Persecution came as a result of challenging the Pharisees. Persecution came because Jesus challenged the empire that oppressed and abused those who were weak. I do not see evidence that persecution came because Jesus hated first.

“All men will hate you because of me.” How we love this statement. We love it because, if we can say it’s true, it somehow proves that we are genuine followers of Jesus. We love it because, if we can say it’s true, it puts us in good company. We love it because, if we can say it’s true, we will grow spiritually through the persecution. The problem is that most people that throw this statement around are taking it out of context and using it to be insufferably arrogant and cruel.

Think about the times you have heard one of the above Scriptures used. What was the context?

· People will hate you because they don’t like their sinfulness being exposed.
· People will hate you because they look pretty good until contrasted with true righteousness.
· People will hate you because you don’t laugh at their dirty jokes.
· People will hate you because you believe in 6-day creation.
· People will hate you because you picket at abortion clinics.
· People will hate you because you call homosexuality an abomination.

AMEN, Brother! REJOICE in the persecution!!! Now, perhaps the above examples are the far leaning “right” kinds of examples. However, I recall a conversation recently with a friend. This friend is not what I would call a fundamentalist. I was talking to him about Rob Bell, and how I love the fact that Rob focuses on the redemption of the world and Jesus’ love, the fact that Rob doesn’t use all the “churchy” language like “substitutionary atonement”. My friend replied, “It doesn’t matter how we talk, or if we change our approach to presenting the Gospel, because the world hates us.” It doesn’t matter. Really? It doesn’t matter…because all men will hate us. Then what are we doing? What’s the point? No wonder we all just sit around waiting to get to heaven. There’s no point doing anything in this world, because all men will hate us, anyway.

Isn’t this just a tired old excuse to be judgmental and hateful? Or an excuse to not have to examine the way we’ve been doing things in the Church? Or an excuse to stay locked within the church walls fraternizing with all the other Christians that the world hates? Could it be that when Jesus said the world will hate us, he meant that they will hate us because we are breaking the dominions, empires and structures of this world that oppress? That we are truly setting captives free, not just from their own sin, but also from the sins of others? That we are setting people free from religious institutions that keep people from the freedom that Jesus promised? Could that be what he meant?

Jesus challenged the power hierarchies. He challenged the hierarchies of kingdom, religious structures, wealth and social status. When Jesus said the world will hate you because of me, could it be that we would be hated because we;

· Love everyone, not just those we call our “brothers and sisters”.
· Invite the lame, poor, maimed and blind to our parties.
· Do not continue to amass wealth within an unjust system.
· Proclaim that in the Kingdom of God there are no slaves or masters, no men or women, no teachers or students.
· Challenge the systems that tie up heavy loads and put them on men’s shoulders.
· Have fellowship with outcasts, thus rejecting the views of those who demand separateness from an unclean world.

Could that be what Jesus meant?

WHY have I never heard this preached?????

posted:  05:01:07,  by:  morethanstone,  in categories:  Uncategorized, Church, homosexuality

Eze 16:48 As surely as I am the living LORD God, the people of Sodom and its nearby villages were never as sinful as you.
Eze 16:49 They were arrogant and spoiled; they had everything they needed and still refused to help the poor and needy.
Eze 16:50 They thought they were better than everyone else, and they did things I hate. And so I destroyed them.
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